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Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #40 by Ruth Wollacott
Posted: March 7, 2005 at 15:57
Until there is some other method of redress for victims of hospital errors, whether MRSA contraction or any other, the blame culture must continue. The other choice is that victims should shrug and say 'Oh well, I have suffered permanent damage at the hands of a government institution - never mind, I don't mind living on benefit and in pain for the next 50 years.'

That is unreasonable and I do not blame any one individual person or event for James' contraction of MRSA. I attribute it to a breakdown and inadequacies in the system over many years coupled with a failure to address those inadequacies even when realised, which have led to the current situation. I believe that those who have been injured are entitled to recognition and acknowledgment of such from the state without having to prove and point the figure of blame at an individual.

1699
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #41 by Derek Butler
Posted: March 7, 2005 at 19:28
Cas,
I have to say to you that i have no problem with someone having a diffrence of opinion with me,we do after all live in a DEMOCRACY,for the moment AT LEAST,and i am going to tell you why i am angry with what this Government and the Health Service have done to my family if you will allow me to.

My Family have served this country in our Armed services continously since 1895,and in all that time my family have never asked this country for anything.What all my family members,those that have served this country during war time and peace time,have said to me when i have commented about people who protest against what i believe in,is that they had defended that right for them to have a diffrence of opinion,and are therefore entitled to dissagree with me.

What my family have always believed in is that because you have that right to dissagree with people,you should stand and be recognised in the open,and not hide your identity,that is the price of them winning you the right to protest,and i believe that it is not to much to ask,DO YOU ???

Chilled did not give his name,or what his interest was with regard to MRSA,you i will admit have,and that as i said gives you the right to dissagree with us if you so wish.What you have not done is to say why you are putting a posting on this forum,and that i am interested in as are the others who have answered your posting.So could you tell us what interest you have in being involved in what is as has been said before that this is a MRSA SUPPRT FORUM.

i would be very interested in your involvment in this,i know that everyone on here has either,
a)Lost someone to this bug.
b)Had someone infected by this bug.
c)Work for the Health Service.
d)They have something to offer the people on here with regard to information be it,New drugs,Equipment etc.

So please if you have something to say,do as my stepfather once said,DO NOT HIDE IN THE SHADOWS,STAND IN THE LIGHT,and let us know what your interest is.

Then maybe we can have a proper debate about why you are saying,what you are saying.
1704
in retort
Reply #42 by chilled
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 13:19
The partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers of his own assertions.
PLATO
1893
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #43 by Bev
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 15:02
so you have decided to come out of the shadows once again...and you are right i care nothing about the rights of your question all i care about is my mum and she died from MRSA are you trying to say it was her fault ?? i dare you...the government and the NHS are the ones that killed my mum...you hide behind a stupid name and have not got the decency to give your name..what is your intention to pray on the emotions of people who are suffering from the havoc wreaked by MRSA or just a sick game played by a depraved mind...
1894
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #44 by Ruth Wollacott
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 15:03
I am uncertain as to exactly what the dispute is. The vast majority of posts onto this forum distill to make the point:

WE BELIEVE IT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE THAT ALL NHS HOSPITALS ARE CLEAN AND SAFE

If there is a dispute, it must lay with those who do not want clean and safe NHS hospitals and/or that the responsibility to ensure that public hospitals are clean and safe does not fall onto the government, to whom the public have paid tax. If that is the alternative view, I have no reply.
1895
in retort
Reply #45 by chilled
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 16:17
Everyone realises that there is responsibility amoungst hospital staff to ensure hygenic practice. But then so should the visiting public, servicemen etc be made aware of their responsibilites in this regard.
It seems that as soon as the public enter
hospitals they relinquish all responsibility to this 'greater health power'

Agreeably patient seperation could prove an effective means of lessening the spread of infection but, there will always be germs floating around the place unless the patients were put in a vacuum.

Getting back to 1st principle which is the evolutionary nature of disease in nature and how we
need to understand it to survive.
1897
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #46 by Ruth Wollacott
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 16:29
I agree that understanding the evolutionary nature of disease is necessary but not of paramount importance to a member of the general public who is admitted to an NHS hospital; rather the remit of biologists and microbiologists. Debating the higher elements of medical science and knowledge is not the intention of this forum. It is MRSA SUPPORT, designed to support victims of MRSA. I think it unlikely that the majority of the British public will ever assimilate the level of medical knowledge it is suggested here. The logical conclusion is that unless the British public understand medicine to this extent, they really have only themselves to blame if they succumb to an HAI.

1898
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #47 by Debbie
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 16:35
Chilled - We all agree that there's no keeping infections abay - but we're not talking a flu bug or a stomach bug here, we're talking about people's lives. What I saw in the hospital when my mum was in there was unbelievable, we are all entitled to think that we're going to be protected when we go into hospital and knowing we should at the very least expect hygiene and the highest of cleanliness possible, but I'm afraid that is not what I experienced when my mum was in hospital. I just hope you don't experience anything like the majority of people on this site have been experienced because I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
1899
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #48 by Debbie
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 16:45
Chilled - just read your last comments - yes I agree that we should all take responsibility, not just the hospital staff - which I did - I TOLD EVERYONE who visited my mum to scrub up, etc., ONLY ONCE were we told by a nurse/doctor, etc to do this., and then only an hour later another nurse told us that there was no need!! Well no need, my mum was dead not much longer than a week later - I agree the majority of the nursing staff were great - but not all.
1900
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #49 by Ruth Wollacott
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 17:02
We were never told we should scrub up before entering the isolation room James was being nursed in, and there was little evidence of scrubbing up or any other barrier methods by the majority of the staff, either medical or domestic. Instead, MRSA was passed off as being so commonplace that it was nothing out of the ordinary.

It transpired that that was the case, MRSA was nothing out of the ordinary in the hospital, but as parents, our only knowledge has been as a result of private research rather than information imparted by any medical person at any stage of James' illness or treatment. I believe it is incumbent on the medical staff to inform patients and their families of the dangers of MRSA and how it is spread. However, information without ability to make change is pointless and I firmly believe there is very little the public can do to combat MRSA in a practical manner, other than make their voices heard.

There appear to be some posting onto this forum who believe that the measures MRSA Support are calling for are misguided but no counter-proposals have been put forward other than vague suggestions that patients should do something about it. So what should we do?

1901
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #50 by Bev
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 21:03
i agree with ruth we were never told to srcub up..why should the visitor coming into hospital to visit their loved ones be held responsible...what you are suggesting CHILLED is that MRSA is now the fault of the patiend and the visitor..ARE YOU OF SOUND MIND...have you not read the postings on this forum...what we are all calling for is more stringent policies and more information given....the most any of us have been told when the contraction of MRSA is mentioned that THERE IS NO CONCERN.....THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT..so at the same time you are worried to death about your sick loved one you place your trust in THOSE THAT SHOULD KNOW BEST and it is only too late you find THAT THEY LIED DECIEVED AND DID NOT KNOW BEST AT ALL....i think unless you have something concrete and of help to add then you should desist in your insane and hurtful remarks...the majority of people posting on this forum have lost and suffered at the hands of MRSA
1903
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #51 by Phip
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 23:02
When Dad was isolated with MRSA there was a very large yellow Infection Control Notice on his door indicating the measures we were expected to take before we went into his room, and as we left the room. This was complemented by a trolley with the necessary aprons, gloves, alcohol gel etc. We complied with this to the letter, although sadly not all the consultants seemed to think that these measures applied to them.

But according to letters I have received from the hospital since Dad died, they knew he had MRSA at least 11 days before he was isolated. Between diagnosis and an isolation room becoming available, he was in a mixed ward with 5 other vulnerable patients. Those patients, their visitors, my Dad, and all my family had no idea he had MRSA so how can any of them have been expected to take responsibility for ensuring they reduced the risks of cross infection?

We can only expect people to take responsiblity/precautions when they are made aware of the truth and provided with the necessary equipment. If hospitals continue to try to cover up the full extent of MRSA, we as individuals are not in a position to take the responsibility we could take.
1905
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #52 by Ruth Wollacott
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 23:38
James had MRSA at least a week before he was isolated and, like Phip's Dad, was in a mixed ward and also moving between wards with several other, some elderly, orthopaedic patients. There was a notice BARRIER NURSING on the door of James' isolation room but no instructions or equipment and there appeared to be little adherence to the notice by the staff.

The responsibility is that of the NHS staff. They are in the frontline of health care and should be knowledgeable about potential danger to the patients in their care. If, as in James' case, it is known that MRSA is rife on the ward and that a patient has just undergone invasive surgery putting him at risk, he should be monitored carefully and tested and isolated at the first symptoms. Visitors should be informed of the situation, instructed on precautions and the staff should set an example by taking stringent precautions themselves.

I was unaware that pain and fever following orthopaedic surgery is often symptomatic of MRSA but I am not a doctor with the knowledge that MRSA is rife on the ward.

With knowledge and equipment comes power, control and responsibility. Those with the knowledge and equipment are the NHS; they have the power, control and responsibility. Although it may come into being as a result of agitation from the bottom, reform has to be implemented from the top.
1906
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #53 by Bev
Posted: March 19, 2005 at 14:52
i agree with what both ruth and Phip have to say .how can the patient/visitor be aware of the urgent need for BARRIER nursing if the MEDICAL staff themselves either do not inform you or indeed inform but at the suggestion THERE IS NOTHING OF CONCERN...
my mum came out of ICU having undergone an operation from which we were told there was very little likelihood of her recovering...SHE DID RECOVER...then on transferrance to another ward it was there we were told she had MRSA BUT IT WAS nothing to worry about...She was placed in a side ward and yes to a certain degree i guess she was barrier nursed...there were certainly two nurses with aprons and gloves sorting out my mums nebuliser they gave us a broadsheet with the basic facts asked us to wash out hands which at that point had been the norm as she was in ICU...20 hours later she was back in ICU in a COMA..BEFORE icu she was on 2 open wards where there is NO NOTICES..NO WARNINGS..NO FACILITIES for the visitor to wash their hands...ICU itself was an open ward ie 4 patients being looked after side by side regardless of whatever infection they had...and although each visitor to ICU had to wash their hands there was no gowns to don nor gloves either...
CHILLED SEEMS TO BE OF THE OPINION that we should know better that we should have gone into hospital dressed like we were visiting aliens and suitably gowned up with presumably breathing aparatus strapped to our backs...
the patients are the victims the RESPONSIBLITY is firmly with the NHS and the government...
yes now we are informed and know better thanks to the awful death of my mother and only to that are my family futher informed about MRSA...i can tell you now we wish we were still ignorant..
until the government and the NHS start to be totally truthful to the general public and spell out the true meaning and devastition of MRSA and other HAI's and also put more stringent precautions in place which are adhered to by the letter then unfortunatly there will be sadly more people joining in this forum and more families ripped apart
so unless you have some magic formula CHILLED and some proven facts then please stop trying to cash in on our emotions it really is like you get some derived perverted pleasure in making remarks guaranteed to get our backs up
1910
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #54 by Bee
Posted: March 20, 2005 at 01:25
(Chilled) I've just found this site and read the articles, most of which I have found informative and I am sorry to hear of the sad cases involved. However, I had to write regarding the remarks of Chilled - is he/she for real or just after reactions? MRSA is serious and getting worse and it appears to be cleanliness at the route cause. People have always visited patients in hospital and in years past this has not been a problem, so I think the cleaning issue is a strong one. I am reading this forum as I wanted to find out what the symtoms of MRSA are. My friend has been out of hospital for 8 days, after having emergency major surgery (including two blood trans, and urinary catheter) and now I'm worried that she is feeling unwell. She has pain and tenderness either side of the stitches,(not by the stiches) she keeps feeling sick, has been feeling wobbly when she stands up and is quite weak. I will suggest she has her Dr come in to see her as she is not due for a post-op check up for another 3 weeks. Does anyone know what sings to look out for?
Thank You Bee
1916
Re: MRSA -Reply #29 by bev
Reply #55 by Tony
Posted: September 26, 2005
Bev, you need to contact CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau) they will be able to point you in the right direction of a INDEPENDANT PATIENT ADVOCATE - these folk are normally employed by charitable organisations totally independant of the NHS.

Believe it or not Bev, there are a lot of real caring people within the NHS, I was one, bullied into submission for years by my employer until I had enough left and became a patient advocate. My wife still works and does care within the NHS - they really aren't all bad . And yeah I understand your experience has directed you towards that kind of thinking.

PALS doesn't seem to have the clout or impidus to sort out internal problems.
7677
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #56 by Bev
Posted: September 26, 2005 at 07:58
thankyou tony ~ but that posting of mine was done way back in march ~ since then i have got my mums notes which shocked me to the core as plastered all over it was MRSA ~ this little of no concern infection turned out to be lungs, chest,wound site, heels, aterial lines, catheter lines, drain lines so 2 years 3 months after her death and after the hospital for that length of time still denying it had anything to do with her death i uncover it for myself ~ i also received a letter from them 2 weeks ago telling me the strain EMRSA-15 which is one of the strains that can only be contracted in hospital !
i now have my MP on the case and i am also seeking legal advice as by omission of the facts they also put my life and my fathers life in danger as we both have impaired immune systems
i do know there are some caring healthcare workers BUT for the last 2 years + i have been singing the praises of the ICU staff yet they never once told us the implications of this awful infection so now in my book they are as bad as the rest
but thankyou for your concern
7679
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #57 by Ruth Wollacott
Posted: September 26, 2005 at 16:26
On the other thread at the top 'MRSA PLEASE HELP', it would appear that the current information imparted to patients and their relatives is no better than when our relatives contracted MRSA.


7681
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #58 by Bev
Posted: September 26, 2005 at 18:06
totally agree Ruth i speak with people on a daily basis and emials and the common thread is no information and no help its terrible
7684
Re: MRSA - A cynical attempt to hide the truth?
Reply #59 by Frank
Posted: September 28, 2005 at 08:52
Bev - EMRSA15 is perfectly able to be caught out of hospital. It's carried by pets and vets as this study published in the Journal of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy shows.Prevalence of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus among staff and pets in a small animal referral hospital in the UK
Anette Loeffler1,*, Amanda K. Boag1, Julia Sung2, Jodi A. Lindsay2, Luca Guardabassi3, Anders Dalsgaard3, Heather Smith1, Kim B. Stevens1 and David H. Lloyd1.
Addresses: 1 Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences, Royal Veterinary College, University of London, London, UK; 2 Department of Cellular and Molecular Medicine, St. George's, University of London, London, UK; 3 Department of Veterinary Pathobiology, The Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Frederisksberg C, Denmark

* Corresponding author. Tel: +44-1707-666234; Fax: +44-1707-666298; E-mail: aloeffler@rvc.ac.uk

Objectives: The occurrence of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) and the possible relatedness between human and animal isolates were investigated among veterinary staff and hospitalized animals in a referral small animal hospital in the UK.

Methods: A total of 300 swab samples were taken from nasal and oral mucosae of 78 veterinary staff, 45 dogs, 12 cats and from 30 environmental surfaces. Staphylococci were isolated by selective enrichment and characterized by biochemical tests and antimicrobial disc susceptibility testing. MRSA isolates were genotypically confirmed by PCR and typed by PFGE.

Results: MRSA was isolated from 14 staff (17.9%), four dogs (9%), and three environmental sites (10%) yielding a total of 28 MRSA isolates. PFGE analysis revealed that most MRSA isolates were indistinguishable (56%) or closely related (26%) to EMRSA-15, one of the two epidemic MRSA strains dominant in UK hospitals. Like EMRSA-15, the predominant strain isolated from staff, dogs and environmental sites was resistant to fluoroquinolones in addition to all -lactams.

Conclusions: The study provides evidence of EMRSA-15 mucosal carriage in veterinary staff and hospitalized dogs, with the risk of MRSA carriage in veterinary staff being significantly higher than reported for the UK healthy community. EMRSA-15 was predominant in the hospital environment, including humans, dogs, and inanimate objects, but the mode by which the strain was introduced and spread remains uncertain.

7707
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